# HHG, This is what balance notes should look like! Please give us the transparency and precision that a competitive game demands!
**URL:** https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894
**Category:** Feedback & Ideas
**Created:** [August 31, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894 "2018-08-31T14:34:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Papa\_Marsh](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Papa_Marsh)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/1 "2018-08-31T14:34:58Z")
Competitive games always have one thing in common. The interactions between different units/heroes are clear, precise, and well-documented. Players are able to plan their strategies with precision because they know exactly how their choices will affect their gameplay.
The balance notes that HHG puts out are vague, ambiguous, and largely unhelpful. For this reason, Hero Hunters will never become a popular, competitive mobile game. We as players need to know HOW things have been changed. “Increased the damage of X hero” does not come close to accomplishing this.
Take a look at Clash Royale, one of the most popular competitive mobile games on the market right now. Look at how perfectly clear and well-thought-out their balance notes are. They give exact values for each change and equally important, they give clear reasoning on every change they make. HHG has claimed recently that they never “shoot from the hip” with changes. Prove it! Show us your reasoning for each change. Explain to us WHY you changed things and HOW you changed them.
Here is CR’s balance update notes from today:
> [@](#):
>
> The way we approach card balance in Clash Royale is a combination of playtesting, listening to the community and looking at the stats. You can expect monthly balance updates to keep gameplay fine tuned and as fun as possible.
>
> In this balance update we’re taking a look at Valkyrie, Royal Recruits, Barbarian Barrel and more!
>
> * * *
>
> - **Valkyrie: Hit Speed slower 1.4sec -\> 1.6sec**
>
> She spins, she wins! Valkyrie has been the most popular tank over the last few months. When looking at her design, she is meant to be excellent at fighting swarms, but should be weak in 1-on-1 combat. Her quick attack speed made her a competent solo fighter, able to take Mini P.E.K.K.A to the brink of death. We have added extra weight to her axe, slowing her hit speed so that she’s not as much of a terror against 1-on-1 specialists and Towers.
>
> - **Royal Recruits: Damage +12%**
>
> Royal Recruits struggled in two ways – they weren’t strong enough on defense for 8 cost and lacked control over their placement. A damage increase should make them a more compelling defensive Troop and we changed their deployment to be able to overload one side. In addition, Royal Recruits will now be found in Clan War Collections!
>
> - **Barbarian Barrel: Elixir cost decreased 3 -\> 2, Area Damage -9%, Range shorter 7 -\> 5, removed knock back**
>
> Barbarian Barrel has struggled to find a place in Clash Royale since its release. We felt a cost reduction (with trade-offs) was needed to compete with other popular 2-cost Spells. Barbarian Barrel is now a very effective counter to Archers and Goblin Barrel, and can even be cast alone to threaten the Towers with Barbarian steel!
>
> - **Witch: Hitpoints -3.5%**
>
> Witch can be very hit-or-miss, if you find yourself without a counter she dominates the Arena like few other cards. This change will allow players to defeat her with Fireball + Log (or Barbarian Barrel!). She is still a Skeleton-spawning nightmare for those who don’t come prepared, but preparing is a little easier.
>
> - **Prince: Hitpoints +5%**
>
> While the Dark Prince has settled into a healthy place recently, his counterpart needed a pick-me-up to compete in the Arena. For 5 Elixir, Prince was a bit fragile compared to other melee attackers, and this health boost will make him more formidable in combat.
>
> - **Lightning: Damage +5%**
>
> Along with Barbarian Barrel, Lightning has seen relatively little play despite the popularity of medium sized Troops. This slight damage buff will make it a little more compelling compared to the popular Fireball, Poison, and Rocket spells.
>
> - **Royal Hogs: Hit Speed slower 1.1sec -\> 1.2sec**
>
> Who let the Hogs out? Okay, we did. Royal Hogs skyrocketed from a 1% use rate to being more popular than Hog Rider in Challenges! We don’t think they are too far off from balanced, so a slight reduction in Hit Speed should reign those regal piggies into a healthy range without putting them back in the stables.
>
> - **Cannon Cart: Range shorter 5.5 –\> 5**
>
> Last month we did a host of improvements to the Cannon Cart and made it just slightly too strong. We are happy with the increase in usability, but the very high win rate was concerning. Cannon Cart locked onto Towers so quickly that it was very difficult to block damage – even for exceptionally skilled players. A shorter range will give opponents slightly more time to intercept it, especially when played in the center.
>
> - **Zappies: Changed reload mechanics**
>
> These miniature zappers have been sneakily powerful for the last few months, consistently holding one of the highest win rates in the game despite steadily rising use rates. Their unique Hit Speed and reload time was causing some issues, so we made them consistent, by slowing down their first attack after moving but preventing them from being stun-locked by other Zappies.
>
> * * *
>
> Let us know what you think about this balance update below!
>
> See you in the Arena,
>
> The Clash Royale Team
---
### Author:  [@Papa\_Marsh](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Papa_Marsh)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/2 "2018-08-31T14:42:48Z")
Also important to note here that when a unit has low usage rate (like 80%+ of HH heroes), they make it stronger! This is a dialed-in game environment in which any unit can be competitive if used well. This is what HH should strive to be if it ever wants to become a popular, widely played game.
---
### Author:  [@Hugekrakwn176852](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Hugekrakwn176852)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/3 "2018-08-31T15:02:55Z")
As an active clash royal player these patch notes are clear and crisp they make sense and also are not to complicated hero hunters needs to buff hero’s with low usage rates and also get a clearer understanding of there games meta.
---
### Author:  [@Deathleech](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Deathleech)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/4 "2018-08-31T18:35:53Z")
I totally agree that the balance notes should be more clear. For instance the September update read for Ifrit:
```
Adjusted Showtime:
Improved cooldown.
Prevent Ability charge while Showtime is active.
Adjusted Unfinished Business:
Reduced Heal on Revive.
```
These are extremely vague. Was Showtime actually buffed or nerfed? Obviously preventing it from charging while Showtime is active is a nerf, but how much was the cool down improved by? 2 seconds or 10 seconds? These things make a big difference. The same with the Unfinished Business. Obviously it’s a nerf, but how big of one? Was the hp they revive with reduced by a few thousand, or several?
Once you go into the game and look at the ability descriptions or play a few matches you can tell, but other than that there is usually no way of knowing. I also think the ability descriptions are EXTREMELY vague to begin with. Why don’t any of them tell the CD of the ability? This is a huge piece of info missing.
At any rate I don’t see Hero Hunters as a competitive game. Competitive games don’t allow blatantly OP heroes like Panzer go unchecked for a solid month, have crucial abilities with a ridiculous luck factor or 50% chance to hit.miss, AI that can make or break a match, and don’t allow things like min/max to go on for so long. The game is set up like a competitive one with the tournaments and rewards, but that’s where it pretty much ends.
---
### Author:  [@Deathleech](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Deathleech)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/6 "2018-08-31T19:32:06Z")
Nailfox, I have tried to be civil with you but time and time again you utterly fail to read and comprehend my posts. It’s like you pick out one small section and then go off about it. At this point I am not sure if you are a trolling or what your deal is? I didn’t even mention nerfing Panzer as she is in this thread…
I was referring to the first month Panzer was out, before she got nerfed. You know, when the community was up in arms but HH refused to do anything? No hero should be blatantly that OP for a solid month. Hence the comment about her going unchecked for a month. Please actually read my entire post and stop jumping to conclusions before you respond to me in the future. Comment on the other 90% of my post instead of the Panzer nerf comments, which seem to be the ONLY part you ever focus on.
---
### Author:  [@Nailfox](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Nailfox)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/7 "2018-08-31T19:34:31Z")
This topic is about “Balance Notes” to get more details when there are updates and changes, nothing else.
---
### Author:  [@Deathleech](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Deathleech)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/8 "2018-08-31T19:35:08Z")
Which I covered in the first 3/4 of my posts. Unlike your post which literally adds NOTHING to the topic. GG?
---
### Author:  [@Papa\_Marsh](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Papa_Marsh)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/9 "2018-08-31T19:36:20Z")
Guys, take it somewhere else.
---
### Author:  [@Deathleech](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Deathleech)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/10 "2018-08-31T19:37:50Z")
Sorry Marsh, I will get back on topic and ignore the personal attacks that do nothing to add to the conversation from here on out.
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### Author:  [@GTSaiko](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/GTSaiko)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/11 "2018-08-31T20:14:53Z")
Im honestly unable to understand why we cant get precise patchnotes. Saying “cooldown has been reduced” is too vague.
---
### Author:  [@WalleWu](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/WalleWu)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/12 "2018-08-31T22:18:45Z")
I never understood why the cooldown is not noted in the skill description. Or why there is no exact number for Moss self damage, while it is with Heckler.
---
### Author:  [@Omnipotent](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Omnipotent)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/13 "2018-08-31T22:55:57Z")
We want players to see there were adjustments to specific aspects of a Hero and to try them out for themselves.
We found that by posting _exact_ changes players would comment only on the numbers and rarely see how the changes affect the Hero in practice. We keep the Balance notes intentionally vague to see if the players can feel a noticeable change before they make assumptions about whether they were too much or too little.
---
### Author:  [@GIR](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/GIR)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/14 "2018-08-31T23:46:08Z")
Mmm, I’d go with the Blizzard model. Like with Heroes of The Storm. It gives you changes to the health/damage/skills with the patch notes. Like here is a character, here are the changes for a more balanced playing experience. Some might get a slight nerf and others a boost. Depends what’s going on.
If you haven’t seen them, check it out. This at least let’s you know what’s gonna happen when you play
---
### Author:  [@tamonizer](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/tamonizer)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/15 "2018-09-01T05:43:56Z")
This frustrates me a lot because they keep on telling us that they’re listening to our feedbacks but it’s been 4-5 cycles of their crappy patch notes. It’s such a disservice to the community. You can see the patchnotes thread asking for more questions/clarification and they don’t even respond. The most logical thing to do is to make it more measurable, detailed with justification to minimize confusion and for better transparency.
---
### Author:  [@ULFPAM](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/ULFPAM)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/16 "2018-09-01T08:47:45Z")
Clash Royale looks like a game for kids, of course they need a grown-up to tell them everything in detail.
Burn.
And I’m ready for the flames back at me.
---
### Author:  [@HITMAN6020](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/HITMAN6020)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/17 "2018-09-01T09:03:44Z")
Are these called balance note or you are making a new game yourself
---
### Author:  [@GTSaiko](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/GTSaiko)
#### Post date: [September 1, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/18 "2018-09-01T09:25:22Z")
Actually I’d expect this kind of vague patch notes for a kids game, since seeing a ‘23% damage increase’ may mean nothing to a kid.
But well, the community has already expressed their desire to get extensive patch notes, and it seems is going to be the community’s job to scrap it together
Next patch I may take pictures of all skills before and after update and post the exact change log
---
### Author:  [@Barnakol](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/Barnakol)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/19 "2018-09-04T04:41:45Z")
The lack of skill cooldown info and per hit cooldown reduction is the biggest BS in this game.
---
### Author:  [@tamonizer](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/tamonizer)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 6:35am UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/20 "2018-09-04T06:35:41Z")
Wow nice to hear it’s a deliberate vagueness.
Have you tried making it clear and informative?
---
### Author:  [@KOMODOCHAOS](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/u/KOMODOCHAOS)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://hhforum.superchargemobile.app/t/hhg-this-is-what-balance-notes-should-look-like-please-give-us-the-transparency-and-precision-that-a-competitive-game-demands/6894/21 "2018-09-04T12:19:15Z")
Mmmm - balance notes.
I tend to find that sticking my arms out and focusing on one fixed point really help me to balance. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
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