Panzer's Bronze Skill (Breach and Clear) is too strong

PvP Pit
22

To be completely honest, “not playing energy backliners in case you find panzer” is not a counter, is a limitation. The fact that you can’t play a bunch of heroes because you may find someone who oneshots them in 1 second sounds restricting.

I just played versus a 6* gold Panzer who oneshotted my 7* gold Flatline. So… am I not allowed to play Flatline in PvP anymore in case I find Panzer?

While this is true, Clyde needs to aim, Panzer doesn’t. If Clyde or Dogface twoshot my energy hero because they headshot them over and over, I’m okay. The rival player won because they had an amazing aim. But pressing one button and getting a kill doesn’t sound fair.

If I recall they did this on… february? I don’t really remember. Hero health was doubled, and heals were reduced, to avoid battles lasting forever. This change made the brawl really fun, at least for me, since no hero was dead before they could do something. But it actually made Dogface even stronger, if I recall correctly. Since he never died before charging his skills, and when he had them he could still kill at least two heroes.

23

I don’t get the logic behind this at all… Artemis is weak to Prophet who can take her out within 3 seconds… nerf Prophet or don’t play Artemis? Clyde is weak to Odachi who can take him out in 3 seconds… nerf Odachi or don’t play Clyde?

The basic point is that, if you want to play certain heroes, you have to take into account their counters. Nightingale’s counter is Panzer. So if you want to play Nightingale… by all means! Just be wary that if the opponent pops up with Panzer you’re gonna be fighting with one less. Just like if you play Artemis, or Clyde, you take certain risks.

You’ve got the logic upside down.

24

It is not just Nightingale, it is all backline energy heroes. And even the tanks are down in seconds.
Prophet can kill Artemis in three seconds, Artemis can kill Cylde in three seconds and Clyde can kill Flatline in three seconds. That is just a normal mismatch. But Panzer can kill half of the energy heroes within three seconds and no one can kill her within seconds. There should be no hero who is a missmatch against a whole group of opponents. Although she is not even a damage dealer, she is a tank who can one shot other heroes!

25

Are people REALLY comparing someone aiming good and getting consistent headshots while the other player doesn’t intervene (break cover, pilot the targeted hero and stay down or tumble spam) to a skill that you just tap once at roundstart while looking in someone’s general direction that cannot miss or be blocked by cover?

They aren’t comparable, plain and simple. I have played lots of squishies and until Panzer I always had a solution. I think there might be a larger problem that Kraterios pointed out, where the metagame boils down to piloting your best DPS and blowing out someone who is weak to your element in 5 seconds - but even that metagame is preferable to one where you lose heroes instantly to an undodgeable skill.

3 Likes
26

With Artemis and Clyde you can try bulking down behind cover or rolling to avoid a controlled enemy to aim accurately. Panzer skill can’t miss.

People are complaining always about how you see the same team in PvP over and over. People avoid using certain heroes, like Operator, because they are underwhelming. But there are other heroes that cant be used because they die just too quick, like Artemis.

Adding heroes that can oneshot half the heroes of one element only limits PvP even more, and will reduce variety.

(And no, I wouldnt nerf Prophet. I would buff Artemis health. She is way too weak. Even dogface can beat her 1vs1)

27

Absolutely agree with this. Panzer one shots halo, gale or flatline in every game so far in this even t seriously unfair and unavoidable. Needs to be fixed.

28

Haha I gave in and unlocked her and she’s even more stupidly OP than my post initially described!

ITS AOE! I took out an enemy GOLD 5* Nightingale + Flatline 3 levels above me with my 4* silver Panzer!!

I compared the numbers and her Bronze skill HAS THE SAME AREA AS YANLONGS MORTAR, HITS IN LESS THAN A SECOND, AND DOES MORE DAMAGE THAN YANLONGS MORTAR (if they are full HP).

How did this get through testing HHG?!?!

That’s not even getting in to her automatic 20-mag shotgun. In one match I one-shot their Nightingale then annihilated a 5* Hivemind without even using my whole mag, it only took seconds!

29

I just wanna say that I tried sending Panzer alone to PvP since she was my last hero with lives. I thought I could get 20 gems from instakill, maybe 40 if lucky.

I ended winning 6 times in a row.

1vs5. 6 victories. I don’t know if any other hero can do that.

1 Like
30

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Alright armchair game developers, cool your beans a bit. I think HHG gets the jist of your arguments.

“Panzer is OP”

Maybe everyone can try to provide some solutions instead of repeating the same anecdotal stories over and over.

Her bronze could use a nerf, probably related to the 100% hp bonus damage or the instant charge, maybe a 50% cooldown advantage but keep the bonus damage or reduce the damage significantly. Overall, from my experience Panzer is a 1-trick pony. If you harshly nerf the bronze she doesn’t really have anything else going for her. Sure, she can straight delete a energy back line, but that’s about all she does. Her silver sucks, and her gold is situational and barely noticeable. Her gun is kinda niffy but the reload takes a billion years to complete meanwhile she’s pretty much useless for a solid couple of seconds, but at least it cannot be interrupted.

31

The entire design intent behind Panzer is that she is to be a one-shotter for weak energy heroes.

Look at her design. The devs conceptualised her as having a bronze skill at full charge at the commencement of battle.

They also determined the damage numbers in her bronze skill and how they would scale per skill point. They knew, that by putting in those numbers the effect would be to one-shot kill off heroes like Flatline, Night, Sentry, etc.

To reinforce the message her plat gives her an even greater buff for the initial 30 seconds. No doubt this is to take into account the 10-star plats that you will see at higher pvp levels.

And Panzer is a readily accessible hero - 3 star, plus available through daily coop raids. No doubt nearly all the playerbase will unlock her at some point or other.

If Panzer is going to be nerfed to NOT be a one-shotter… well the devs would have failed to execute their own plan.

But Why? Why would the devs design something like that?

I guess you have to ask the devs why.

But my surmise is that they had to invent a mechanic to BYPASS Mandrake’s invisibility for the well-known heavily-damaged-but-not-quite-dead-Flatline/Nightingale/Sentry-and-rolls-around-until-healed gameplay. This is not only poison gameplay, it is hard to counter, especially for lower level players.

I further guess that the devs don’t want mid-tier or low level players to give up because this strategy is quite hard to counter without experience. Hence Panzer, a readily accessible hero, takes out Flatline/her colleagues immediately, and for the rest of the battle you have to live with Panzer’s flaws.

I actually think it’s pretty well thought out.

No nerf to Panzer is needed. Just an appropriate counter.

1 Like
32

Please, tell me how.

The only hero who can counter her early burst is Flatline, but she is one of the main victims of it.

You can use Heimlock AND (not or) Phalanx to make squishy heroes survive her initial skill, but they will still die, since her bronze took away 80% of their HP (Phalanx shield included). And needing two 5* heroes locked behind crates to counter a hero that everybody will have by the end of the months sounds unfair to me.

While I like the design of an early hero who loses their momentum if they can’t cause damage on the first moments of a battle, I think Panzer went too far with that.

Just my personal opinion.

33

I think this is making clear that the health is to low on most hero’s, I think we need more hero’s buffed, to much hero’s can’t be used in PvP and pve, a lot of them don’t do damage, can’t survive or aren’t useful at all.

1 Like
34

Please stop with the nerfing posts already … every other week it’s another hero everyone complains about

35

Dont worry. They’ll release a crate only hero next month. A bio with a skill called “Faster Breach and Clear” precisely to counter Panzer. She will be named, Pay2Win

36

Her gold is garbage, that much is unfortunate. Her entire design is “absolutely nuke some poor squishy in the first 5 seconds for an easy 5v4”, she is almost never going to be in a situation where she is outnumbered and if she is then it’s usually the sort of game she isn’t going to win anyway - it’s like Gammond’s gold all over again.

The cherry on top is that the bonus only applies if you have dead allies, so even in PvE or against enemies with summons (i.e. Hivemind) the bonus doesn’t kick in until someone dies, and of course the bonus isn’t even that strong.

However it really doesn’t matter. Her bronze alone makes her a must in PvP even if she had no guns and just shot confetti. But she DOES have guns, automatic shotguns with a 20 shot capacity, even once I delete one electric hero - if they have a 2nd one I will nuke them down in a single mag. Butter, Gammond, Fortress don’t stand a chance against 20 rapid fire mech shotgun blasts. Her silver is just icing. It rarely kills anyone but it hits the entire battlefield so like Hideo’s skill its mostly useful as a mass-interupt, staggering the entire enemy team is never a “weak” skill, you interupt reloads, skills, etc. I’ve lost plenty of games because I couldn’t finish off an enemy because a long reload (like Drake or Dogface) kept getting interupted with skills like Clean Sweep or Bladestorm.

Panzer’s plat is just more of the same BS. With that skill on a high * Panzer you honestly don’t need her Bronze to be OP anymore - your shotguns becomes the bronze skill - able to nuke any squishy electric in seconds and unlike Clyde/Hideo/Dogface you don’t have to worry about AIM or COVER. Automatic shotguns shred cover in 1 second and are impossible to miss. Add thousands of bonus mech damage from her plat to each shot and it will be disgusting.

@tamonizer

I know its a joke but people still defending her playstyle should really think about that example. What if every element had a panzer-style midliner that could instantly kill a non-tank from the vulnerable element? Are people here REALLY ok with just turning the game into elemental rock-paper-scissors that is decided in the first few seconds of a match?

1 Like
37

I can’t even win 10 fights with my good team anymore, either panzer blows up your backline and when you try to take her down Oracle makes you desorienting, so you can’t do anything.

When it’s not Oracle protecting she’s revived by flatline, so you can choose to take one of them down, but they get stealth so Caine can give them a silence stagger block.

This hero broke PvP even more, with all the the problems we already had(broken PvP matches/useless hero’s/op hero’s)

It’s getting really annoying

38

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4* silver instakilling a gold 8* and doing more damage that any other hero sounds balanced

1 Like
39

Panzer is overpowered and needs a nerf. She is not bugged like halo, but she makes battles unbalanced. I’m speaking about platinum Panzer, not golden or silver.
What is overpowered: I’m using platinum 9 star and her first skill and full used bullets is enough to make -2 blue heroes 10 stars each. What’s the problem? The problem is in the speed she is killing, -2 heroes per 5-7 sec is too much fast. Also she is fat enough, what makes her even more overpowered.
What confirms my words is that battles last 15-25 sec, what couldn’t ever happen on 70k power (30-40 sec should be as usual).

1 Like
40

With the churn out of these new toons + the level of whales (AND how they are systematically neglecting the inherent issues of PVP matching), I realized Im having more fun playing at the 10-20k mark using my underused non meta bronze-silver toons. HAHA

1 Like
41

I really hope HHG realizes the damage they are doing and doesn’t wait a whole month to nerf her.

15 second match, Panzer had 20k DPS at lvl 55:

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