The SANE Panzer fix

Feedback & Ideas
61

Even if her bronze ability does not start at full, I can still just unload on energy/mechs with her autos, and even THAT charges her ability up pretty quick. You said that she dies in less than 5 seconds, but it makes a big difference between 2, 3, and 4 seconds. If there is more than one energy hero, two of them die in about 5-6 seconds if I have Panzer, a lot of the time.

The problem is her kit:

  • She has shotgun type ammo, which breaks cover quicker than Butter or most front liners. She’s a mid line hero.
  • Rate of fire, it’s ridiculous. She fires twice as fast as Butter, maybe 2.5 times faster than Cast. 20 ROUNDS? come on.
  • Reload method. She reloads one bullet at time, so interrupting her reload barely gives you any advantage. There are times when I specifically hit a hero’s cover while they’re reloading (like Sentry/Dogface, or frontlines like Drake/Baron), which gives me a great advantage, and I think that’s how it should be.
  • Tankiness. She has almost as much health and armor as my Hivemind, who has around 2k more power than her. Basically she’s almost as tanky as a frontline.
  • Her silver isn’t something to scoff at, an AOE ability that hits all heroes, interrupting whatever they’re doing.
  • her gold is a little dumb to me also. It gives no incentive to kill the allies, yet she’s too tanky to focus and kill in the beginning.

Almost everything about her sounds too good to me. This is subjective, but when I don’t feel good playing with her myself, there’s a problem. There are a lot of times when I win and I’m just like “So stupid, I should NOT have won that.” but hey devs are making money milking this OP boosted hero of a champion. Once everyone has gotten their fill and wasted tons of resources, gold, and real money to power her up, nerfs will probably come after that.

62

Never said her damage wasn’t OP. Even mentioned it was, just don’t think taking away her bronze ready at start is the answer. Make it single target fine. lower its damage fine, I have no problem with that. Even make it recharge again more slowly.

I even said nerf her Plat, and for PvE let it get the buff again in next phase. As well as making her clip smaller. The scatter shot or rate of fire is something I didn’t really think about, but I have no problem with them changing those either.

Personally I like the different kind of reloading, and hope more get it. Some reload so fast that it is hard to interrupt it, and if you do, it hardly matters. Why would you want everything the same, and have all strategies work for everyone

When I said she dies in 5 seconds, that is without doing ANYTHING, and I mean that literally. I have had her die with doing absolutely no damage. If her life is the same as Hivemind, I think that is a Hivemind issue, not hers. Part of my thinking on Hivemind is they give his drones life, and act like it matters with him staying alive. Once the drones are out he gets pretty strong, it is why many kill him fast, depending on rest of team.

Don’t make it sound like she is the first character that was OP at her launch. Halo’s plat was BS, for months. Oracle was broken when she came out. They weren’t the only ones either, not to mention the one character with way higher power thing. The difference is she is more readily available. And yes, I think it would have been better to patch after a week and not wait the full month.

Putting money/time into a character you should assume is going to get nerfed/fixed is on the person who did it. Personally I started working on her for bounty the day her crate came out and get her on second tier. And she did beautifully for that. Her nerf when it comes wont bother me.

Some of this I am sure will be addressed at next patch, as well as the health patch itself, for now it is a deal with it thing. I am waiting to see.

63

The problem with Panzer is she doesn’t really work with how the game is set up. Instantly making a 5 vs 5 PvP match 4v5, or even 3v5 severely hinders the opposing team. I can see the developer intent with Panzer to make a hero with great initial burst that after the first 30 seconds goes way down in power. The problem is, even if Panzer was horrible after her initial burst (which she isn’t), it would still be hard to balance her. She would basically have to be useless after the initial onslaught to even things out when it’s 4v5. That’s what the price would be for being able to instantly killing an opposing hero.

As is my gold 5* Panzer only has 166k hp, but can instantly do just under 80k damage with Breach and Clear to a mechanical hero. She can do at least double that to energy heros. When most 6* gold heroes have 100-180k hp, that is a problem. To make matters worse you can’t even dodge Breach and Clear.

Now add to that 20 shots from a shotgun before needing to reload AND her platinum skill Assault Breacher, which gives a few thousand mechanical damage to every shot the first 30 seconds, and you have just created a recipe for disaster. A lot of people focus on Breach and Clear as the problem, but that’s just part of the equation. It’s the combination of these 3 things that make her so deadly.

If Panzer started with B&C, but only had say 10 shots before needing to reload, and no Assault Breacher she would be much more manageable. If Breach and Clear was slow moving and could easily be dodged, we wouldn’t have a problem either. Heck, even giving Panzer 10 shots per mag, having a normal reload that takes a long time, and making B&C have a super long CD would do loads to balance her out. Or make B&C have a 5 second delay before being able to be used at the start of a match. Heck, if they want to keep her a glass cannon then just reduce her hp by a lot. Any of these things would bring her more in line.

64

if some reload so fast, it means their clip is smaller, OR it does less damage per hit. GIve examples if you’re gonna spout that. It doesn’t make everything the same, unless you think so in your mind.

If she dies doing ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING, I think there’s something wrong with how you play her, because that is literally impossible. Unless you just pick her, and afk. Her health/armor ratio is NOT a problem with Hivemind, he’s a front line. And like you said, his abilities offset his health and armor, but that is not the case with the current Panzer.

Mentioning PLAT Halo says enough, she needs to be PLAT to fully abuse the ability. Plus those were possibly unintended consequences, and yes the response was slow, people already milked that ability, she should’ve been nerfed much sooner. We’re talking about a BRONZE Panzer raping face. Stop focusing on her PLAT ability, her whole kit makes the plat seem OP, heroes like Maven have their attack damaged increased when they’re plat also. Oracle isn’t broken because her abilities take a long time to charge, albeit she has a rapid fire rate so it’ll charge quicker if you hit with the whole clip.

LOL no shit the nerfs won’t bother you, nor anyone else. That’s what the whole point of milking an OP character, just abusing her until nerfed, which is my point.

I agree with pretty much most of what Deathleech has said, which is a delicate balancing act that probably won’t come to fruition until like way later, ergo this hero will be OP during the time, and we have to deal with this BS.

65

So once again PVP tournament Ruined by panzer running amok With what I now coined instant disintegration Of your energy type heroes at the start of the match just hope they’re not both standing behind the same piece to cover because then there both instantly dead
What a waste of time To load a PVP match
Make it so panzer skill that’s instantly charged from the beginning has a 30% or less chance of hitting or something so there’s some kind a randomness to it
there are other heroes skill with the same thing Attached

66

It doesn’t matter to me if it is because the clips are smaller or do less damage, they still reload, where interrupting doesn’t much matter. Having a third type of reload, if you want to say fast and slow are different, I think is a good thing.

When I say she did nothing, I wasn’t AFK, I was KB, I was staggered as well as stunned (was my gameplay bad, I guess it was possible, I am not perfect). It happens, I didn’t say it happened every time. My thing with Hivemind was that, his health is decently low, because they offset, but I think his health is to low. And I was surprised it wasn’t on the list of major increases.

I mentioned other heroes with issues, pointing out she wasn’t the only one. I did say she is more available, fine I will add that the skill is more easily available too.

My point about a nerf not bothering me is because I got her for the bounty, not PvP. It doesn’t hurt anyone or make anyone frustrated there, does it? I do use her in PvP, 80% of the time I face another Panzer, which I guess sure I abuse her to face another one. I still lose half the time, so she don’t live long. And I never revive, once mine is down she stays down.

I gave lots of examples how I think she could be nerfed, so I missed some, sue me. Deathleech did a good job of stating flaws with her implementation. The only thing I originally said was I think her bronze should be nerfed in other ways besides it being ready at start. and her plat should be lowered in time, and made a per phase thing. Make it weaker for PvP and better for PvE (where it is burned out before boss). And/or to make her clip smaller a post later.

Not saying everything else, doesn’t mean I think it doesn’t need to be addressed. I even said, I didn’t think of attack speed and scatter shot. Like you at the end of that post, I said we had to deal with it, and wait and see what they do. feel better if I called it BS too?

67

Tried something new in the war against panzer
removed energy heroes from the equation and you can see in screen shot he uses energy heroes vastly under power compared to my mechanical heroes
Silver butters and Baron easily dispatched normally come on Most energy heroes die fast anyway Whether they’re silver gold or platinum
but I couldn’t kill one of those two
One of them is under 3000 the other under 4000
wow panzer u bitch she instantly incinerated mandrake And all was lost
Matador stood there shitting and pissing himself crying for his lost Muchacho Then shortly after the match was over

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4 Likes
68

Well this abuse of the system has bee going on for the longest time. Nothing new here. Rightfully Nailfox should have been punished for spoofing and to meet a team that is of much higher power.

Hence my suggestion of -

1, if one runs a 10* than the lowest star hero will be 8*
2, if one runs plat than the lowest will have to be gold2

Failing to meet the above prerequisites the match would not be started. That way the said player’s team will than be properly balanced instead of this nonsense abuse,

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Not sure to how to express on this kind of abuse of the system.

3 Likes
70

When you say abuse, are you talking just him or you too? your high is 9504 power and lowest is 5285, that is still a pretty big difference. Your opponent just did it better.

The same with F FA U against Nailfox. Nailfox just did it better, and picked a more OP character to do it with.

I try to keep my power to 3k difference, but i do break out of that at times too. It would be nice to get some kind of restriction on this, power seems like more of a deal to me than star/color/level, but i am sure others have there own thought on this.

71

Nailfox has an amazing panzer, but that’s not the point.

He beats me a lot of times and sometimes I’m lucky and I beat him.

Problem is that it’s seems to be ok to use a 14k with a 5k hero.

Right now we complain about panzer, but the bigger problem is using a balanced team while facing a 14k panzer with a 5k gold idc something hero.

I still think panzer is to strong, I use her to destroy noobs, I get so much PvP fragments, others upgraded her and use her to destroy good teams, I’ve stopped using my good team because of this because I just want easy PvP frags.

So it seems panzer means easy win, that’s why I don’t like panzer, or using messed up 14k, 5k teams

No crying, I get enough shards but this really is an issue, the balance is taken out of the game, panzer or not

1 Like
72

Platinum Matador would instantly kill silver butters six star or Baron 4 star within his first clip I didn’t get one kill make sure you’re looking at the same screenshot I am
If you look it up Silver Baron or butters elemental armor compared to a platinum matador elemental attack Damage come on easy math Add Hemlock and mandrake for buffering no energy heroes on my team
he should’ve at least taken one death
It’s a rock paper scissors system if you both have rock Your damages is seen his white
In the case where scissors versus paper the damage you do is seen in green And when it’s scissors versus rock it’s seen as red
He has Two weak energy heroes at silver 4 and 6 star I have three mechanical heroes gold six stars each and Two bio mechanical six and seven started
I have the rock paper scissors advantage

73

His team isn’t really abusing the system though. All are 5-7 star and he has a mix of plat and gold heroes. On the other hand his opponent is sporting a bunch of 6-8 star heroes, with a 10 star Panzer and since they are mostly silver and bronze it’s artificially lowering his power. That is really like a 40k+ team, but since his Panzer is bronze it’s lowering it much more than it should.

1 Like
74

I see what you are saying, but I always look at power too, not just what color they are.

Is there any information on how a character performs with 10k power , at 10* bronze compared to 8* plat? Does the basic damage increase enough at 10*, to make also having all the extra skills at 8* Plat, mean less? Right now I don’t know, so you might be 100% right.

Edit: Every time I face a team with 5 or 6k less power than me, it is because it seems 1 character is way higher in power. Just assumed that it did that because of the gap. Makes me think since both of these guys had huge differences they faced each other. I could be wrong, but it would be a good fix for this kind of thing.

75

It’s not only the faction or the power level differences you also have to control your characters so obviously you don’t know how the game works
if I a Matador platinum level 11,000+ points takes aim against 3000 silver energy hero he would be decimated the picture shows that no character died
that’s doesn’t mean he’s better
what he did is called cheating asshole
Do you not pay attention to what people say
Why don’t you go join the rest of the cheaters that use penzer Or any other glitch in any software or video game on the planet to act like you’re good but it’s really just cheating I mean how stupid are you to think that power level differences alone change a match it’s a combination of faction and power level and if check hero information you’ll get even more details on elemental guard elemental attacks etc…
glitches like panzer Kill
blitz bonus and tournament events
events have no real representation of skilled players just people abusing the system when
keel lost her scavenger ability after an update within three or four days they fix that
panzer is been going on for over a month
I categorize Panzier as a glitch more than OP hero After spending this month dealing with it
Depending on the situation she can instantly kill any faction at the beginning of the match
if you looked at the screenshot I showed you it’s Plain as day

76

Guys, I think we should leave her as is… I kinda like winning 1v5’s :slight_smile:

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5 Likes
77

How outlandish I mean Jesus Christ I thought when a green level panzer blew my socks off i was something but The proof is in poopgloob screenshot

78

Remind me of having a Phalanx do that to me months ago. Same thing, different Flavor.

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If you check most of screenshots on this feed the team that has panzer No heroes die even though the panzer team has energy heroes vs
the opposing team using combination of bio chemical and mechanical
there’s a strategic advantage there that’s not being implemented
a 10 star panzer green level or should not decimate the whole team and not one death on her side
The factions are to represent a rock paper scissors affect and for some reason it’s not working

80

No need for name calling, I think we can be civil even if we disagree.

I didn’t say HE was better than you, I said he did it better. I was referring to his use of a power gap from his best character to lowest was bigger, even though yours was pretty big too.

I also wasn’t talking about them not dying, of course I think they should have. I was talking specifically about that huge power level difference, in Characters, on each team. Even though i cant know who you (you didn’t say which), or your AI targeted either, we all know the AI is stupid.

I don’t think you necessarily should have fought him, because his upper end is 3k more power than yours, and he should be penalized more for his power difference. But at the same time I think your team, if you faced a well balanced team at 36k wouldn’t have been fair either (7.2k each). Obviously it would still come down partially, to team comp.

Edit: As for using a single Panzer and no one else, the team should be based on her power, not team power, in my opinion. So should be facing at least 7k or 8k characters. That is just the crappy way matching works

Edit: Bah, meant to say. A better screen shot would have been Survival or damage taken. Not the main page.