Hero’s Buff, Nerf, and Revamp Ideas!

General Hero Hunters Discussion
111

I dont think stygia stuns an entire team. I’ve met her occasionally in pvp and i dont ever see that happening. Unless you are using only one hero in pvp?

From my experience, i can always switch to another hero when she stuns the one im using. Its always a good idea to bring at least 2 or 3 dps heroes to a match just so you can switch to the other when the one you are controlling is down or disabled. Even before stygia was released, i always do that. Are you using only one dps hero in pvp? If so, then its pretty obvious for your opponent to choose which one to stun. You might want to change your strategy and bring at least two dps into a fight. Secondly, stygia is one of the hard heroes to kill… just like Min, etc. Dont waste time trying to kill her first. Kill the easy ones first and save stygia for last. Stygia is hard to kill but not unkillable. Hope my advise helps. I dont always win but i dont always lose either. Best of luck. :grinning:

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112

U got shutdown by a CS in your comment yesterday by saying " I speak for the people " Lol .
Now you making posts .

People complain caz they cannot win . And if Deca is watching this text. Don’t nerf Stygia or any heroes any time soon. A lot of people has left the game and more will .

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113

Having her ruins the xperience, this game should value skill over loadout, maybe they should make it so something’s are different in pvp, like ex. Stygias sheild has a cooldown in pvp, not in campaign, idk, im getting tired of y’all complaining about the idea of her getting nerfed, please start posting about others heros, not just her,

114

“Having her ruins the experience”? Then you should be good because you dont have her. Come on bro, you’re sounding like one of those parents that wants all the kids to get a trophy just because they participate. You don’t have her? Too bad, find a way to beat her then and show off your skills

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115

The reason why people are against the idea of stygia nerf is because there is no valid reason for it :grinning:

You say things like “unkillable” and “stunning the entire team” both of which are false statements. I have killed stygia on many occasions and can say with absolute certainty that she is killable. And never once did i experience a situation wherein she stunned my whole team for the entire duration of a match. I think if you want to present your case of nerf… at least use facts to back up the idea. Using false statements wont help your case. :grinning:

Your complaint about her stun suggest to me that you are only using one dps hero in your team… try using two or three.

Your complaint about her shield suggest to me that you are trying to kill her first everytime you encounter her in pvp. Try killing all the other heroes first and save stygia for last. When she is all alone and you still have your dps heroes, you’ll realize she is not that difficult to kill and her shield wont save her. Of course you can always attempt to go for the kill if you see an opportunity i.e. her health is low and she’s unshielded.

Anyway, looking at your responses… i dont think you are one of those players who would take advice and adapt/change your strategy. But if you do change your mind later… give my suggestion a try and see how it goes. Happy hunting. :grinning:

116

Maybe some of the Stygia haters are auto players not hand players and expect easy wins.
Im not a good pvp player and i have no real issue
winning aginst her. Leave her alone and take the game off auto

117

As a ‘hand’ player, and a player that has no trouble against a stygia i do would like to state that changes have to be made.
I have gone into detail about this many times, but to summarize.
She needs more openings for counterplay that doesn’t require a direct counter, certainly, there are ways to beat her on the occasion. But where skill lies is to improve and adapt with your own setup. If your setup is badly crafted then obviously you will lose. But even for decently crafted teams, in most occasions she has an unfair advantage of covering all of her basic weaknesses. Every single hero has a weakness that is able to be exploited by any team. Except stygia.
Now to clarify. I am not begging for a nerf, i am merely stating an opinion from a neutral perspective and suggestion that a ‘change’ is needed. Nerfing to me sounds like degrading a character. And degrading like they did to Beck is not something we need

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118

Very true, but oh summarized one of my key points better than I ever could, but here’s the main thing, how would she be changed if she was, that would make her more open to be beaten, but still a good hero, (we don’t want another beck, or Mariana’s,

Tired of needing direct setups man, it’s a pain, I want to try out other heros sometimes and it just ruins the experience as the match is over in a minute bc they target the main point instantly,

We need skill over setup, not the other way around, I agree with heros like fiber and serial having special or “unique” abilities because of their rarity, and five stars doing decent at there jobs maybe even better than 3 or starters, but a “do it all” hero is too much sometimes,

119

Shiekd duration reduced to 7 seconds. That’s all. It’s not a nerf in direct sense since she has more opportunity ti refresh it. But it creates more frequent openings for enemies to exploit. Or give her shield a small cooldown with it. But i could understand how that would ruin a bit of the point

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120

That idea I had would really benefit the extreme side or her as well as the pvp, that idea I had about making the sheild have 1/10 the health, that way, and if the sheild is destroyed it instantly regens and the sheild timer resets, if it runs out of time it goes on cooldown equal to its run time, I feel like that would be cool and make her nearly unkillable in extreme, and make her killable in pvp if you lay off on her for a bit,

Also, can the stun either be a silence, or maybe unable to charge while someone’s affected by it, bc that’s the best stun in the game rn, like can clyde get that kind of stun?

121

Also another way to prevent people from upgrading it and having it super low so it never runs out is having the run time links or with its upgraded, ex; lvl 10 skill, run time 2 secs, 80, 16,

But the skill starts at 41 so that would be like what, 8?

Simplified version: example with a platnium stygia at level 70 with lvl 70 abilities,

Quarmine stays same
Stun → silence or just doesn’t charge while someone is stunned,
Gold stays same
Platnium; 1/10 the health, if it is broken by an enemy it instant regens and restarts the timer
When timer runs out,it goes on a cooldown equal to its run time, starts at a base of 8 secs, upgradable to max of 20 at lvl 100,

(When a hero is upgraded to platnium it sets the abilities level to 41, so basically starts at 8 second, every 5 levels, it goes up one second,
Lvl 50; 10 sec, Lvl 60; 12 sec, lvl 70; 14 sec, lvl 80, 16 sec, etc…

I feel like this design would make her beatable if you trigger the sheild but wait it out and divert fire from her, then when it goes on cooldown is when you strike, but it would make insane in extreme, since they fire like tanks, it would make her a great target and nearly unkillable in campaign/extreme,

Sidenote; maybe sheild health could be equal to half this heros max hp,or normal amount,

honestly feel pretty good about this concept, what do y’all think?

122

I have my opinions on Stygia, but I think those have already been covered in depth by other people. What I am a bit concerned about, however, is how many people here seem to think that just because you can counter something, its not a problem. That is very far from the truth, in my opinion. Sure, Stygia is counterable, but she is still one of the most safe and reliable picks into any kind of team composition.

When a character is disproportionally strong, it usually means said character should be nerfed or reworked to not be as oppressive. Thats at least the approach every other multiplayer videogame Ive ever played takes. Saying “get gud” is like the least productive thing out there. If a hero is so strong and ever-present that you have to craft your entire team and strategy around it, that is an indication that it is too strong. No single character should have such an effect on the meta, that is very unhealthy for variety. This game has a massive amount of heroes, but only a select few are reliably strong in mid to high levels of PvP.

Now I can fully understand the concerns people have that PvE will suffer from the PvP nerfs, and there I agree. The problem with balancing for both PvP and PvE is something I can personally relate to, as a Destiny 2 player. To be completely honest Im not entirely certain how you would go about both changing Stygia in PvP whilst not knee-capping her in PvE.

My main point however remains, that the way this community talks about game balance seems very unhealthy to me. What usually happens is one of two things

  1. OP gets told to “get good” or “just upgrade Stygia yourself” which is entirely unproductive. Telling someone struggling with Stygia to just get her themselves, is even straight up admitting that she is too strong.

  2. OP gets told to “just counter her”. This is also an unhealthy way to look at game design. Say we have a theoretical game in which Hero A beats Hero B, Hero C and Hero D, with there being little to do about it. Say then we have Hero E, which does nothing against Hero B, C or D, but instantly kills Hero A. You now have counters, but is it good for the game? You have basically turned the game into glorified rock paper scissors. Now this is obviously overexaggerated, but my point is simply that it isnt good for the game to have one hero that has very little counterplay. It stifles creative teambuilding when you either have to run a Stygia based team or an Anti-Stygia team with little in between.

I just wanna finish off this long post by saying that I genuinely enjoy this game, Stygia or not. I just wish that PvP felt a little less stale, but at the same time I understand if PvE is what the devs or the community wish to focus on. I bring up the topic of counters, or “just getting good” as these are discussions Ive had for many years on forums about other competitive multiplayer team based games, and once a community can move past these poorly nuanced retorts, discusssions about game balance usually end up way more productive.

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123

Couldn’t have said it better myself, made such a strong point as well, thank you for posting your opinion on the matter, honestly such a well organized response too, thank you for sharing,

Edit: the whole “PvP vs. PvE” things is hard to handle, some people don’t even play pvp, it’s hard to balance them in between each other, since both is vital to the game, pvp is the heart, campaign is where the progress must be made, for instance extreme is impossible without fiber,

124

Just for the record… the suggestions i am giving are pretty basic pvp concepts and not specifically done to handle stygia.

Suggestion 1 : bring 2 or 3 dps into the match. I do this even before stygia was released. This is so if one gets killed or stunned… i can switch to the other and continue fighting. If a player is not doing this, then i would agree the term “get good” applies here. I think this is pretty basic pvp strategy and not something specifically done just to counter stygia.

Suggestion 2: Dont waste time shooting at hard targets. Get rid of easy ones first. Again very basic pvp strategy and not something specifically for stygia. I believe what some players are doing is trying to kill stygia first. They shoot her till her health drops below 50% which triggers her shield. They then continue shooting through the shield. By the time they do that… healers heal stygia to above 50%. They then shoot her down to below 50% again which trigger the shield again and the cycle repeats. They then start to think she is unkillable. If you change your strategy and kill the other enemies first… stygia shield pretty much just trigger once in a match. I dont apply this strategy just for stygia… if my opponent have serial and he activate his armour… serial becomes unkillable so i stop shooting at him and shoot at somebody else. If my opponent is rolling around with one hero… i choose other targets first which is easier to shoot.

In short… i am not doing anything really special in anticipation of stygia. I play this way long even before stygia came out.

And as far as balance is concerned… i dont think any heroes need to be nerfed at the moment. But many heroes do need buffs to bring them back into the game. For example… if they buff dogface and make his reload 3 or 4 times faster and change his ruby skill to doing damage… i would ruby dogface and use him in pvp. If they bring back Gammond’s old Killshot, i would use him more often too. :grinning:

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125

I want a little change in obrez health or shield.
Member of community please reply

126

I very much disagree on mass buffing heroes. Its generally better to both nerf what is strong and buff what is weak. This game already suffers from powercreep, where most old heroes simply can not keep up. Buffing carelessly does nothing but further this problem

This is a problem that many old games with lots of characters face, League of Legends being the one Im most familiar with. In that game, what is usually done is that the strongest, most ever-present characters are nerfed and the least used characters with the worst winrates are buffed. Always both. It seems that many in this community dislike nerfs, and I can understand that. When youve paid for a hero it kinda feels bad to see it nerfed. But for the health of the game longtime, its necessary.

I assume the devs have stats on which heroes are winning the most, or being played the most in PvP. If they can interpret those stats correctly, I trust them to make good decisions. Theyre more likely to have a better overview than any single player. Still, I appreciate that they appear to listen to player feedback. Feels nice yknow

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127

I agree with this part of your statement → “buff what is weak”. :grinning:

I think if they do that, i will be good for the game. Players will have plenty of reasons to build other characters and we would see more variety in pvp as players have more heroes to choose from.

Nerfing may be necessary sometimes. But at the moment, i dont see any heroes that needs to be nerfed.

I still hope someday they buff dogface. Make him reload 3-4 times faster and make his ruby skill "doing damage ". Dogface was my old time favourite. :grinning:

Other suggestions i can give is more of a correction rather than buff (in my opinion). I think many heroes should get “doing damage” instead of “supported”: dogface, 4cep, artemis, prophet, hideo, pris, astrix, harbinger, kurtz. Especially kurtz. Kurtz is a leader. He is not there to support anyone… his lackeys should be supporting him… :laughing:

Regarding stats… its a bit tricky. Low level players would use just about any hero they can get their hands on in pvp. Most would be using heroes like ryker, gale and butter since they are the first heroes you get. It doesnt necessarily mean the heroes they use are good… they are using it only because those are the only heroes they have.

I think from level green all the way to gold… you would still see a good mix of variety. From platinum to ruby however… i think this is where some heroes start to stand out over the others.

128

Tbh prophet deserves tactician more than anyone, not only would he get a pulse fast but them set his amp up for the rest of the match, also Artemis and magnus should have the same ruby, and maybe her plat should be something like gaining permenant health for every hero that dies, wether by her hand or not, also maybe Kurtz should have that, he deserves the armor, he ain’t really a dmg hero, and spewage should have dmg to go with his tactician bc it suits him,

But tbh, doing dmg ruby needs a fix, heros like bolt are trash compared to serial bc of their rate of fire, a solution would to be make it all elemeantal “DMG PER SEC” and make it all equal, so whatever level it’s equal,

Ex: serial lvl 95, ruby lvl 95; extra dmg = 125,000 dmg per sec → ruby +6, 300,000 dmg per sec
Ex2 bolt, lvl 95, ruby lvl 95; extra dmg = 125,000 dmg per sec → ruby +6 300,000 dmg per sec

This way it’s balanced out up on the ruby levels and the damage is equal for all heros, also balance out the armor bonuses and cover dmg for other heros, that way ruby doesn’t benefit others over others, would be nice overall to give use to someone me hero again, the old ruby system just ain’t doing it anymore,

129

Her health seems fine to me. She deals high damage and she can instantly destroy cover to regen HP

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130

Mi pregunta es cuando saldrán la cajas de fichas especializadas o ya no saldrán más. Por qué si no saldrán más dejen de dar una ficha que no se usa