Even with Dog in place of Panzer it’s not that hard to kill. Dog doesn’t instantly melt a hero so you have time to have all 5 heroes alive and focus a few of the enemy down. I played about 20 matches in a row and can post more screens like this, but I rarely lost. It was only when Ifrit/Panzer/Flatline were combined that I had any real trouble winning a match.
To be fair those screenshots show you can put a decked out plat 10 star dog against lower ranked metas. Get us some pics of 10 star enemy teams without the min maxing kkthxbai
Hey, I don’t like it anymore than you. What should I do though? Play my normal team power and lose 9/10 matches? Cause that’s what was happening with the current meta. It’s kind of hard to play in the 60k range when EVERY team has some form of the meta with 8*+ Ifrit, Panzer, and Flatline. My team is at an obvious disadvantage cause my Panzer is only 7*, my Ifrit 6, and my Flatline 5. You are pretty much forced to play the meta or lose. I played 20 matches and only 2 didn’t have I/P/F.
So, it’s either get wrecked by the pay to win teams, or actually win some matches min/maxing. If HH would get their ■■■■ together and fix min/maxing and balance the meta none of this would be happening.
I pretty much know how a match is going to go before it even starts. If it has Flatline/Ifrit/Panzer I lose 90% of the time. If it’s missing Panzer I win 80%. If it’s missing Panzer and Ifrit it’s a 99% chance I win.
It was more an ironic remark deathleech than a request for proof, as it is generally accepted and understood the win chances are next to nil, which indicates no need to invest in any other hero than the meta to perform in PVP. That’s a clear oversight. Heroes need to bring their weight to a fight, but looks like certain heroes require some weight watchers sessions…
Mandrake first for me. He never dies. But if he eventually does then I’m off to Flatline - she dies quickly but since killing Mandrake took so long she revives him before she herself is killed. When she’s finally down I’m back to Mandrake again. Meanwhile Ifrit revives Flatline. Mandrakes dies. Flatline revives.
Reverse your order. Flatline has to go first. Ifrit gets a max of 2 rezzes per hero, Flatline is unlimited. I always kill her then move onto the next squishiest hero. I wait for the rez. Kill her again and then triage the remaining threats.
Thanks! But I still gotta take Mandrake down first otherwise my AI controlled team members are getting the big confuse when he makes everyone invisible.
As much as you may want to, Drake can’t be your first target if Flatline and Ifrit are in the opposing lineup for the exact reason you said: you’ll never take down Drake fast enough to avoid him getting rezzed almost immediately. You probably won’t even be able to consistently down him before one of the two just hits him with healing, let alone a revive.
He makes things difficult but you’ll never break through the revive cycle unless you take out Ifrit and Flatline first.
Since his nerf a couple weeks ago, I’ve only lost one game (and I’ve won 2,000+ games in that period) to a Plat Ifrit team and that was when I was using Plat Ifrit myself (for tournament points). My best teams do not use Ifrit because he simply has too much dead weight - without his plat he’s a weak support and with his plat he takes up thousands more power than my other healers all for a skill that offers a single, conditional, delayed rez for each of his allies. For the power of one 7* plat Ifrit, I could bring a 10* gold Keel - and that Keel is going to do MUCH more damage, healing, and surviving.
With Ifrit, his plat is triggered mostly because he’s such a bad healer and I have to play with a man down for 15 seconds - risking collapse as we lose momentum. Instead I just bench Ifrit and play with a better healer so that my heroes never have to die in the first place. Across thousands of games this month my strategy has paid off - I win more, and faster, when I keep Ifrit on the bench. It will only get worse for Ifrit if HHG can move us away from the current situation where all the best DPS are MECH.
I rarely actually use Panzer in my teams anymore, I’ve found better DPS options that work well to counter the typical enemies I end up seeing on the field of battle, including countering Panzer herself. The funny thing is, looking at @Sing’s list that is surprisingly pessimistic (imho) on the state of the heroes, most of my highly effective DPS options, are listed as poor or worse… tho yes I would agree with the “bad” labels on SOME of the heroes)
As for Ifrit himself, the best way I’ve seen to actually take down the Ifrit/Flatline/_____ teams, would definitely be as some people above have actually suggested. Ifrit’s Kit dictates a kill order slightly more rigidly than other hero’s kits. My typical kill priority is as follows:
Caine (need to kill him before he can place his abilities on high threat enemies)
Flatline (take her out before her revives kick in, and her Stay with Me is annoying as heck)
Panzer/Odachi/Dogface/DPS (Ifrit/Flatline team comps tend to have one MAYBE two sources of damage, kill them and the enemy team can’t kill you)
Mandrake (his stealth is annoying as heck and blocks your AI from finishing anyone, unless you have your own Ifrit)
Everyone Else.
The only time I actually aim for Ifrit earlier in the match, would be if I know I can wipe him out quickly… without risk of him being revived by Flatline.
Yes Ifrit’s plat means you need to kill people multiple times… but if you think about it… dealing with Ifrit revives is actually better than having to deal with things like Moss heals, Caine Bronze/Silver/Gold, Flatline Stay With Mes and Clears, Phalanx shields, Mandrake Stealth’s, Halo Passive Heals, Vanguard/Butter Shields, Legendary Nightingale Heals… etc. Because yes you need to kill each Ifrit Revived twice… you get a 15-ish second period where that person is doing absolutely nothing… in all the other examples I’ve listed above… they’re alive the entire time (with the exception of Flatline’s Clear revive)… shooting back, generating ability charge, casting abilities and taking aggro from your AI (thus diluting your team’s focus fire).
Look at some of the heroes I’ve mentioned:
someone who’s got a Phalanx shield takes 1/2 damage (so still needs to be killed with “2 kills worth of damage”) and combine that with her Plat… it makes them hit harder and soak even more damage.
Vanguard Shields are huge and if everyone is alive on Vanguard’s team… he can cast that shield almost faster than you can break it… negating most if not all of your damage (thus needing to pour MORE than double the damage into your target if they’re Vanguard protected)
Caine’s abilities are bigger kill blockers than Ifrit’s heal + revive… the Armour soaks up damage, and breaking it gives a heal (with gold), the Counter measures blocks ability damage and silences+damages you and also heals (with gold), and he can charge both up insanely fast.
Moss’ primary heal is probably the biggest AoE heal in the game… and whenever they overheal they grant bonus max health… so Moss can take anyone but the most health stacked tank to pretty much full health… and he affects the whole team… so again… forcing you to “kill people multiple times”.
I have also noticed that if Flatline revives someone who’s waiting to be revived by Ifrit’s plat… then it breaks Ifrit’s plat revive… so they lose the opportunity to actually be revived by Ifrit (maybe Ifrit’s revive has another restriction which is “hidden” of ‘revives only the first death’ idk… would be cool if a Dev confirmed this or not.) If this is actually true… then Flatline/Ifrit kinda step onto each other’s toes and some of the power they add to your team, is actually wasted/redundant… thus bringing a little more “dead weight” power to your comp.
I’m currently experimenting with non-Flatline/Ifrit/Caine team comps, and some work a bit and some don’t… which is as it should be… if there was a team that would beat Flatline/Ifrit/Caine 90% + of the time, then people would just complain about THAT comp…
Do I think the heroes are perfectly balanced? no, I would like the Devs to give some TLC to some of the heroes who have poor/terrible effectiveness in PvP. (tho from what I’ve heard from the Devs on posts here and on the Discord chat AND in VIP, they’re working on that, and will be rolling changes out over the foreseeable with whatever this Role Warfare Initiative that (I think) Howitzer talked about in his forum updates… so I’ll wait to see what happens with those changes)
But do I think Ifrit needs a nerf to accomplish that? also no… Ifrit is tough to deal with… but he CAN be dealt with if you take the time to analyze your team comp, and the team comps you typically fight.
I agree with basically everything Sogui says here, with the exception that I think Ifrit can still be useful in the right team comp… but he’s not the be-all end all that the people who want to “Nerf Ifrit” seem to think he is (he’s no oppressive “pre-nerf Panzer” or “pre-nerfed Halo + Baron/Cinder combo” where there wasn’t much of a response aside from “bring the same thing and hope yours is better”)
