Ifrit Nerf

[WalleWu]

Chesterfield only marks if you are inside the range of his skill, so you can easily aoid it.
Prophet marks too.

[Rygel]

I don’t think Prophet actually has a “Mark”, I think he just applies a damage booster, unless I am very much mistaken.

[Deathleech]

@WalleWu

But depending on the other heroes build around, there are some that are ubeatable for my team and that shouldn´t be. I should be able to beat all combos with my team. I win 90% or more against other teams, but loose half or more than half against Irfit teams. There clearly is an unbalance and it is because of Irfit. Not as a stand alone hero, but with the teams you can build around him.

Exactly. The Ifrit/Flatline/Panzer meta is definitely beatable, it’s just extremely difficult. Depending who the last two support are also varies the difficulty. Caine in there? Very hard to beat. Heimlock? Not as bad.

Ifrit by himself isn’t even that bad. It’s when you add the burst of Panzer to quickly kill a hero, Flatline to revive Ifrit (or another hero) if they die, and then 2 support or healers to help keep everyone alive. I can guess how a match is going to go just based on the match up screen. If it has Ifrit/Flatline/PAnzer/Caine /____ I lose 90% of the time. If it only has Ifrit without the others like Panzer or Flatline, I can win at least 50/50, if not more. If it doesn’t have any of them it’s pretty much a guaranteed win.

I don’t think Ifrit by himself is a problem, I think he is with the team you can build around him. I also think Panzer and Caine are issues more so than Flatline. Flatline is actually really weak on her own.

@Sogui

On the other hand I think the least useful input is from people who play at 60k+ where all their heroes are platinum and 8*+. From 8k to 40k you will run into countless opponents who also try to min/max, your effectiveness as a PVP competitor is determined in how well-made your own team is. Once you get your team power so incredibly high that ALL your opponents ALWAYS have plats, then min/max stops becoming an issue because you never have to deal with the “min”.

Sorry, this is extremely flawed logic. That’s like saying "I don’t think taxes are that bad in the US, after you have found a loop hole in the system to get out of paying a majority of them. While technically not illegal, it’s also frowned upon because everyone else paying what they should think taxes are too high.

You saying Ifrit isn’t strong when you are playing with a 9* silver Panzer who has a 2k point power advantage on a platinum version who gives minimal benefit skews your perspective. I also think a 10* gold Ifrit isn’t that bad… but that’s because he is missing one of his two best skills despite being max star rank.

@Sogui

I’m sure Ifrit might be attractive at that level because other healer plats like Heimlock and Keel look downright pathetic compared to passive revive. But my experiences better reflect those of the average poster here since below the “Plat-Only” team threshold - min/max allows only the most efficient teams to consistently win, and simply put - Ifrit is not very efficient. However the vast majority of players are not competing at the “plat only” level and thus face a more competitive landscape where opponents have more flexibility in creating the ultimate PVP team.

What? Most people in your bracket aren’t min/maxers. It’s a growing number since HH refuses to take action, but most in your bracket are playing as they should and leveling up. You are taking advantage of the system and praying on players with weaker teams who are “playing by the books”. For that reason alone your opinion holds less weight than most others.

That’s like saying you play a bunch of junior high kids in basketball and your opinion is more valid because there are more junior high basketball teams than professional NBA. Never mind the fact you are a grown adult with a clear height advantage over everyone else giving you an incredibly skewed perspective.

Also your comment about only the most efficient teams win when you min/max win isn’t true at all. I run a team of 3 level 70 heroes, all 8-10* plat and then two random gold or silver heroes with them when I min/max. I win like 80% of my matches with this team and it’s hardly because my team is the perfect min/max comp. It’s because I have a huge advantage over any “normal” team comp in the 40-50k range. I could up those numbers more had I really cheated the system and left some of my heroes lower level and rank, but I still win a lot considering I just threw some high rank heroes together with a few low ranks.

[Kraterios]

@Rygel, i completely agree that all the meta should be looked into not just 10* plat, but also 6* gold,

I have also issues with lower star and gold hero’s, but he’s abusing the system, creating a new meta for his own where no noob has a chance to defeat him, and we can’t fight him because he’s micromanaging all his hero’s to avoid decent players, this has nothing to do with panzer or whatsoever nerf talk, it’s just abuse, that needs a different punishing.

Also the reason why I can’t take him serious, I’d rather have a lvl 30-50 player giving their opinion about PvP then him with the abuse.

He’s not just stealing pvp tournaments and PvP shards, he’s also making noobs quit because they just die against OP teams non stop.(not just him, there are more off course, but he’s the one always speaking here)

[WalleWu]

Sogui is one of the guys who activly destroy the mid level PvP, by pushing the min-maxing to its limits, while stating that he has no problem with Irfit. Sure mid level PvP is important too, but atm it is more killed by Sogui himself (and others who make the most of the min-maxing problem) than the Gold Irfits you normaly meet there.

[Nailfox]

@sogui This is not a min/max topic, this is an Ifrit Topic. And I fully agree with Rygel on this:

@Rygel

End game PvP is definitely important (since eventually we’ll all be at that stage of play), early - mid game PvP meta health is important too, as that is where you learn how things work in PvP and where new challengers to the tops of leaderboards come from. So I would want the Devs to figure some way to make things work at all levels of play (I sometimes pop down to my Alt accounts to experience silver - gold play as well, and it really is vastly different than Platinum-gold play)

My comment to you @Sogui was more related to you having a great Min/Max combo which is superstrong versus easy opponents, so you will not feel how a proper balanced Ifrit/Flat combo works because you can burn through all opponents. I’m not upset that you do it because its smart, most others cant do it because we have upgraded the good heroes above that and we have no option of reducing skills, levels o downgrade from plat. But again this is about Ifrit meta combo and I can’t understand how you fully could have met one.

[WalleWu]

You are right, just looked it up. It has the same animation as Nightingales marking, thats what confused me and mybe Saiko too.

[GTSaiko]

I think he marks, but the description doesn’t say anything. It would be as easy as picking Mandrake or Sapphyr versus Prophet on a challenge, and seeing if he can override the invisibility.

Can’t test it myself since I don’t have Prophet, though

[Kraterios]

And to be honest, I didn’t want to speak anymore about min maxing, I just wanted to wait out for the new update, I’ve spoken my opinion more then 1 or 2 weeks ago, and that still stands

1. ifrit is out there, let’s deal with a decent counter
2. Min maxing needs to be punished, also to keep the game interesting for new players

@Sogui

I know English isn’t your first language but you need to slow down and read before you start spamming images of my profile, again, in the same thread.

Attacking my English? And also, these images show that you don’t know anything about plat ifrit at 60k, so why do you speak, to answer your question, I post this because you troll, and in an annoyed rant I make spelling mistakes, my bad.

By the way I’m also dyslexic

[Sogui]

@Nailfox @Kraterios

Both of you are aware of the general “PVP store” thread where I posted about Gammond (and one of you hid the first post like a coward).

I literally got on my phone and posted the first 5 games I had with Gammond.

In all 5 games (40k power) I faced an opponent running a 10k+ DPS while the rest of their team averaged about 7k in power.

How do you think I learned to make ideal PVP teams? There’s no guide online, and I’m newer than most of the posters here. I simply learned from what people were already doing to me. Maybe when you guys were level 50 in March or whatever people hadn’t learned the best teams yet, but I was level 50 LAST MONTH and the community isn’t so naive anymore.

So even if you have an argument that Ifrit is OP at 60k power (Rygel doesn’t seem to think so), I have a perfectly valid point that Ifrit isn’t even among the top 10 heroes from 0-40k. If he does have more utility at higher power its simply because most plat skills at garbage, so he starts to look better by comparison - but that’s not something that justifies a nerf or calling the hero OP.

[GTSaiko]

@Sogui

How do you think I learned to abuse PvP?

Fixed that for you

I personally agree that Ifrit is not OP, though. I have no problems with him since they gave him a resurrection limit.

[Nailfox]

@Sogui

So even if you have an argument that Ifrit is OP at 60k power (Rygel doesn’t seem to think so), I have a perfectly valid point that Ifrit isn’t even among the top 10 heroes from 0-40k. If he does have more utility at higher power its simply because most plat skills at garbage, so he starts to look better by comparison - but that’s not something that justifies a nerf or calling the hero OP.

For me it is the Plat skill which combined with Flat and other healers support which is annoying. Makes the game boring and to win you need to use that combo or else you are an underdog. If you combine that with high health and you need to kill all opponents several times it becomes a different game of PvP focused on surviving avoiding to be killed, not a shoot em up. Matches then normally last 2-3 minutes and the reward is 100 PvP gems the times you manage to kill all opponents. I use Ifrit now and have to do it in order not to start a PvP match with a big handicap, and I win 95% of the times even against an identical setup. I wish I didn’t have to use ifrit to win, thats my point. PvP is now BORING for most of us playing 60k+ matches.

Between 0-40k you wont find many plat ifrit with that meta combo, and if you do you are min/maxing so you can quickly break this barrier. That means we have a widely difference experience in our normal PvP matches.

[Muninn]

As we’ve failed to keep it classy, and this topic has gone so far off the rails that it’s gone into the ravine, killing hundreds, I’m shutting this topic down.