I know there’s a thread in April related to this (seems like a while back), but can we improve AI aiming, skill usage, and/or charactersitics? I know heroes that have a large clip (like Baron) can just spray in the general direction of the Hero and hit (while also hitting cover), but I just auto’ed in PVP, watching Oro. My Oro was literally hitting the edge of the cover, while completely missing the standing hero behind it, who was shooting at some other hero. It’s significantly much more costly when heroes who have a very limited ammo clip just completely miss heroes. I can understand if they’re behind cover, but I don’t think they should be completely missing 5-6 shots in a row on a standing opponent hero.
There were some improvements made over time, but they seem far and few between. I’m grateful that Hardscope now doesn’t continually summon his drone every chance that the ability is up, but that should have been the standard, no? Most of the times when I switch to Hivemind, one or both of his abilities are up, and he’s just been auto/basic attacking the opponents/AI the whole time.
Can there be some sort of option on how the AI can be controlled or be told to perform an action? For example, some options:
Have AI focus on heroes that they have an elemental advantage against, like Mechs targeting Energy heroes first.
Have AI focus on frontline/midline/back line first.
having AI hit healers or shield creators first.
Have AI use skills as soon as they are available
let the AI keep using a channeling (or any other) skill, even at the cost of taking damage from a skill hurled at them.
have AI focus on destroying cover first.
I’m not asking for the AI to be able to just land only headshots or use skills at precisely the right time to interrupt the opponent while they’re using a skill, but I think it has to be better than this. We don’t need to have all the options mentioned, but maybe start with something more general. Something like having them be aggressive, like constantly shooting and emptying the clip even though they’re getting shot at, or really passive, like ducking under cover or constantly looking for cover when they’re getting shot at. These are pretty crude examples, but you get the gist (I hope).
I would love for them to just have some basic intelligence.
I have had far too many PVP matches end where I was focusing a target down and the rest of my AI team was splitting their damage between 2 other heroes. Why not do something as simple as have them assist whatever target you are on? Maybe give them all a 70% hit rating with their basic attack?
Also, just some basic common sense with abilities would be nice. For instance, right now Halloway spawns halograms right BEFORE using his blast, rather than the other way around the get more damage from it. Dog will use his Heavy Cal before using Fire at Will. Basically they use whatever is up first, even if the other ability that would be wiser to use first is only a second or two behind.
Im for smarter AIs (because I hate seeing stupid things), but people who don’t want smarter AIs argue, loudly, that making them smarter will make the game too boring. I dunno really but when an AI is trying to hit a gigantic toon like matador and miss an entire clip(s), it feels wrong. Haha or when a savage mid his spray skill moves. Or when a healer refuses to heal. Honestly I dont know anymore.
But some people like it the way as it is now. I don’t know why, but they’re there. . . They think AIs are stupid by design/ by choice of the devs. Maybe they’re right?
I think it would be possible for the developers to program the AI and introduce better scripts either as a whole or for each of the 60 heroes. If they wanted to they could make it such that Clyde never missed, Hardscope always headshots, as does Bolt, Mandrake always stuns the most dangerous opponent, goes invisible when low on health, etc.
But… if AI is too good… would there not be a reduced incentive to play manually? You’d just auto all the way because the AI is better than you.
Secondly if AI were great, then it would be difficult to reward good pvp players who can shine with their skills. Such players would move on to more challenging games where their skills are actually being tested.
Hence the devs must make a space for truly good pvp players to shine, in a pvp game.
On the other hand, if the AI is so stupid then people will just get frustrated. No one wants Dogface to just run around without shooting. No one is advocating that sort of AI.
The question is balance – how to make the AI decent, yet not too strong, and what standard to peg it at? I think the devs have got the current balance right. It should be pegged at just below the average player.
This is so that (1) the average player finds sufficient motivation to play manually (2) if he chooses auto he won’t take a huge hit in results (3) if he polishes up his skills he can get great gains in results.
What about decent above average players? Well, bad AI hits everyone so it kinda squares off. As long as the player pool feels engaged to the point that the AI is livable, then that would be enough.
“I think it would be possible for the developers to program the AI and introduce better scripts either as a whole or for each of the 60 heroes. If they wanted to they could make it such that Clyde never missed, Hardscope always headshots, as does Bolt, Mandrake always stuns the most dangerous opponent, goes invisible when low on health, etc.”
We’re not talking about an invincible AI that always gets headshots and never misses, dodges every single skill shot with accurate precision, or find the ultimate optimal method of survival. Obviously yes, of course devs can create a script for an AI to be so, no is asking for that.
“Secondly if AI were great, then it would be difficult to reward good pvp players who can shine with their skills. Such players would move on to more challenging games where their skills are actually being tested.”
I don’t think there’s a huge gap between really good PVP players and average ones. This game isn’t that mechanically intensive, this isn’t Fortnite or PUBG, or any other FPS that requires heavy amounts of mechanical skill. You get two skills, abilities, can move left and right, duck and stand, not too complex. Unless you haven’t played other actual FPS games on mobile and think this is the apex of mechanical skill in PVP.
“The question is balance – how to make the AI decent, yet not too strong, and what standard to peg it at? I think the devs have got the current balance right. It should be pegged at just below the average player .”
a just below the average player doesn’t just hit the cover and waste like 70-80% of their ammo (unless intended, like Baron as I mentioned), hold onto skills that are wasteful if not used immediately, nor do they focus on heroes that they have an elemental/color disadvantage against (unless they are focusing down on a hero that is on the verge of being killed).
“This is so that (1) the average player finds sufficient motivation to play manually (2) if he chooses auto he won’t take a huge hit in results (3) if he polishes up his skills he can get great gains in results.”
I think we can all agree that playing manually will almost always produce a positive outcome. There is a HUGE spectrum between the AI now and becoming something invincible/unbeatable.
The point seems to be missed that the AI should be made smarter or given the options to make it target specific things. This is no offense to the top PVP rankers, but I don’t think mechanical skills can overcome bad matchups in this game. No matter how good you are, I highly doubt a 5 man energy team is going to beat a 5 man mech team, unless there’s a huge power difference. (crude example, but I think it serves my point).
@ tamonizer:
“But some people like it the way as it is now. I don’t know why, but they’re there. . . They think AIs are stupid by design/ by choice of the devs. Maybe they’re right?”
Oh absolutely. The way the AI functions is entirely by design/choice of the devs, but I question the extent or motive of this. Are they just keeping the AI the way it is because they think it’s the right balance, just too lazy to introduce some new options/mechanics, or do not have the resources/abilities to do so? The answer to this question would certainly be helpful. I’m hoping it’s not laziness (the worse possibility) and it’s hard for me to believe that they think it’s actually the right balance, especially when there are heroes with just one ammo in their clip.
Very comprehensive and grounded thoughts. I hope the devs considers to improve the AI somehow. But they dont have the incentive to do so, seeing how theyre making so much money in new characters.
Though this really irks me a lot. I just watched one of my toons catch a bomb from cast. It would have literally missed but the AI chose to catch it. Haha and why hivemind isnt summoning his drones. Why sentry is using his aimed shot to a mech enemy with 1k hp. I mean this is just a rant but yeah, they’re stupid.