Armor has helped ruin PVP team diversity

Since the armor system was changed in August, it’s become obvious that the armor system is downright broken.

Armor reduction isn’t 100% flat, but it’s VERY flat. I pointed this out to [HHG]Omnipotent over a month ago and he responded that they “are aware of the discrepancy between high ROF (rate of fire) heroes and the damage they deal.”

I thought at the time that this meant HHG would get around to fixing it but since the September update introduced more bugs than it did fixes, I’m really worried that this is never going to be addressed.

The TL;DR is that high ROF heroes are borderline garbage in the current PVP meta because armor will reduce their damage by 65%+, meanwhile low ROF heroes will only lose 10-20% of their damage to armor. It was especially apparent this weekend where my 10-star Matador (2k damage per bullet) was only hitting an enemy 8-star Nightingale for 670 damage per bullet but my Nightingale (27.7k damage per bullet) would hit the same 8-star Nightingale for 25k.

It just seems like a bad joke that huge armored tanks will lose 1v1 to squishy healers because the healers 2k armor is more effective against a heavy machine gun than the tank’s 4k armor is against the healer’s rifle. The outcome of this system is felt throughout the PVP meta, many “bad” DPS heroes would be pretty decent if they didn’t shoot marshmellows because of the armor system.


Good to know do that’s what killed Matador. Well let’s wait for the October update. I’ve adapted and that’s what you should do in all games with nerf and buf cycles.

I didn’t even know about changes to the armor system in August.

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I didn’t know either. I’ve been trying to figure out how armor works on my own and no one told me.

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I completely agree

He’s right, check hero’s like Baron, sapphyr etc, same problem.

Let’s keep this armor related, he’s right on top

This is why Razorback does practically zero damage with his base attacks now. I don’t even use him for gauntlet.


soo is it just attack-armor=damage? (i’m ignoring modifiers)

Razorback was probably hurt more by the shift of his stats from offensive to defensive modifiers, which was also in that update.

The August update included elemental armor in all armor calculations, I believe that armor has always gimped high ROF heroes but with elemental armor being buffed in August the results became more drastic.


No it’s not completely flat or else they’d be doing 0 damage, but its pretty damn close sometimes.

Armor should get some damage. Yes it can block incoming fire but every hit should reduce armor somewhat.

Either removing armor efficency or armor points altogether.

So at first, yes, the armor will effectively protect from first 15-20 seconds damage. But as the fights drags on and the hero receives punishment, the armor should progressively become useless.

Basically, the same thing that happens with Cover at the moment. While cover last, you are protected. when it’s gone, you get shot

If armor would be a percentage the problem should be solved.
If you do 10 shots a second with 1000 dmg or you do one with 10.000 doesn’t matter. The damage reduction would be the same in both cases.

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This is probably also the problem with castelan and his sentry turret

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A fractional reduction like that would gimp slow fire rate characters disproportionately. As of now, there is a tactical difference between high and low fire rate. You have to think about it and plan for it by including both high ROF and low ROF heroes in your team, or you rightly suffer the consequences.

If anything, I would like to see a simple reduction of armor for heroes that aren’t supposed to be hard targets. High ROF DPS needs to be effective against them, but don’t force HHG to dumb down their game just because some players want their one good hero to work on everything.

Uh, fractional reductions wouldn’t gimp anyone… 20% reduced damage is 20% regardless of ROF.

And there’s no “tactical” aspect to the current system, high ROF means you have terrible DPS - end of story. There’s absolutely no situation where having a high ROF is advantageous.

Please try to understand the current system before you rant about “dumbing it down”, the current system is incredibly dumbed down because we are forced to use “one good hero” for DPS.

Just quoting myself, because you seem to have missed it.


Keep in mind that those with powerful shooters gotta reload all the time.
Also click a heroes weapon from their information screen and you’ll get a more detailed explanation of their damage.

Moss has powerful shots but quite slow reloads. Hence, 19.000 DPS.

Oracle, rapid but weaker gun, not a slow reloader. Hence shed got better DPS than Moss.

Both heroes in example at level 75 Platinum, Moss at 7*, Oracle at 6*.

Fixing the armor problems would lead to more variety in damage dealers. Since the bio damage dealers are all having a high ROF they would do better damage afterwards. The Panzer/Dogface problem could be solved by this, because you could kill them faster or at least make them hide to survive. This would make their damage output go down to a normal level.

well, screw me… i just happen to know the developer provide details for every weapon… :sweat_smile:
so, the weapon stats also will change if we upgrade gears or when the heroes is leveling up ?

I saw my Matador Evicerator Chain Gun, in level 64, 6 stars, gold+1…

the stats said it has ROF 7.91 rounds/sec and ammo capacity of 80 rounds… So, he will empty his clip around 10 second…
With 8755 DPS, is that mean he will having 8755 x 10 = 87550 damage point per clip ?
Pretty awesome actually, regardless of his aiming accuracy…

It could be. But with the current armor calculation it goes down to probably about 15k

So for simplicity sake lets say a hero has 5k armor. A hero that does 80 shots with a minigun may do 3k dmg per shot. That armor reduces each shot to roughly 300 dmg. A hero that does 6 shots with a rifle does 36k a shot reduced to 32k per shot. That means the minigun is doing 24k with a full clip (300x80) vs the rifle doing 192k (32,000x6). Without armor coming into play the damage would be 240k for the minigun vs 216k,

As you can see, armor has a HUGE penalty on faster firing weapons if it’s a base, or close to base reduction. If it were a flat percent of say 20% off it would be MUCH more even. Using the same weapon types above with a 20% reduction the minigun would do 192k and the rifle would do 173k. This isn’t gimping the minigun and reducing it’s damage by 90% and the rifle by only 11% like above.