Seems like too many people read that if somebody thinks a nerf is needed, even if just a tiny one, that it’s because they suck at PvP and need to “git gud” (as inane a counterargument as you’ll find in a discussion like this), can never win against that hero, or it’s a hero that they don’t have access to and they are whining about the perceived imbalance. That’s narrow thinking.
I’d like to see a tiny nerf to Dog but not for any of those reasons. I do well in PvP in every event and use him as part of my #1 loadout regularly, usually controlling him right from the start. He’s Platinum and about to hit 9 stars and with fresh mech frags coming in regularly from a 10* Matador, it won’t be long before he’s 10*. In short, he’s awesome and having him in his current state isn’t hurting me in the slightest. I do well in PvP in large BECAUSE of Dogface.
The reason I’d like to see a small nerf is for overall game balance. We’ve got over 50 very unique heroes in this game but only a relatively small number are viable in PvP. Games with hard metas, especially ones that limit the pool of good options so severely, get BORING. Perfect balance for every hero isn’t realistic, I get that. But that doesn’t mean that the devs shouldn’t be striving for it. More options = more fun. Hell, I might start losing more because of it but I still think it’d be a healthy change.
Dogface doesn’t equal in instant win any more than any other meta hero does. But he along with a handful of others are head and shoulders better than the rest and are going to be present in more top loadouts than just about any other hero, to the point where having a high-level one is near mandatory. I just want to some diversity that doesn’t come at the cost of being competitive. Just my $.02.
I see your piont here, but nerfing one hero wouldn´t higher the diversity. Even a nerfed dogface would still be far better than Steel, who should be a damage dealer, too.
Nerfing an overpowered hero like Halo, highers the diversity. But nerfing an A class hero like dogface to B+ wouldn´t. Players would still choose Dogface over other damage dealer. You would never get people to use other damage dealers, because the other ones are just to weak. If you nerf him down to much, they wouldn´t use him anymore and simply choose an other A class hero. So you would even lower the diversity, because you have one hero less in the A class pool.
So as a conclusion you should better buff the weak, than nerf a few strong.
Well Wallewu what you just said makes sense to some degree, but to me balance means slight nerf to the strong, slight buff to the weak…key word being “slight”. In most games like this that I play the nerf bat usually hits too hard…when usually a slight tweak will do. Great game to model buffs/nerfs on is League of Legends…considering that game type and the amount of characters and abilities their balance is actually incredible…
A Developer statet in some thread, that they want to keep the Nerfs to a minimum and just want to do small adjustments and better nerf a hero twice, to keep the nerfed heroes competitiv. Which I think is a good policy.
Sure Dogface is strong, but he has his weaknesses. So I don´t think they will take the risk nerfing Dogface, because, if you nerf him just a big to much, he will get useless.
Well, this is the part that a lot of people probably don’t want to hear…but you don’t just nerf the one A hero. It’s a process that involves continually balancing and rebalancing as player trends shift and new heroes are introduced. Win rates, usage rates, etc.
Buffing trash-tier heroes like Steel and Elite Rifleman definitely has it’s place too and they’ve been cool about making improvements each month even as they nerf some of the really strong options. But as I posted in another thread, relying on buffs a lot more than nerfs brings a whole new set of problems with power creep…
Getting all heroes to about a 50% win rate should be the goal. Easier said than done since there’s a lot that goes into the one simple metric but it’d be such a richer gamer experience if you could reliably use the vast majority of heroes and feel like you had a shot to win. Right now if I roll with a team of bad heroes against a team of meta heroes, even if the opponents comp synergy isn’t great, I’m just not going to win unless it’s a bot or the guy has no thumbs…
This I definitely agree with. If a nerf is needed or being considered, make it small see how it affects things. Huge wholesale changes risk swinging the pendulum too far the other way.
I mean if you took Dogface and knocked his health-pool down 10%, would he stop being a Tier 1 PvP option? Heck no, his great basic damage would still be there, his huge elemental damage would still allow him to chew through energy heroes like candy, and his specials would still be an absolute ball-buster. But now he’s a little more squishy like other back line heroes bringing him just a little bit closer to the pack.
This is just a simple observation, but according to this it appears that he is only used in 1 out of 10 (10%) of the top 10 players’ top teams, and used in 12 out of 50 (24%) of the top 50 players’ top teams in this current tournament.
If hero diversity is the main complaint, Mandrake is the one we should be talking about. He is used consistently in the majority of teams at gold or above in PvP. However, Dogface is not a hero I see as a staple in PvP. True, he is a strong damage dealer, especially when you can get his skills off, but he is only used since he is so easily available. If Prophet were readily available, you would see him much more in PvP, and as someone who has Prophet, he is a much bigger threat in PvP due to his health pool, which is just short of quite a few tank heroes, and his ability to consistently deal damage rather than waiting on his skills. Plus, since he has an advantage over bio chem heroes, he quickly eliminates an enemy’s Mandrake leaving the team vulnerable. However, since you only have a less than 0.2% chance of getting Prophet each time you open the hero crate, he isn’t readily available, and he is not seen enough in PvP to be considered a threat to the balance of the game.
@ Gilgamesh, Not too sure if you are aware, the new hero Oracle is a game changer. One need to have diversity in their PVP team than spam one or two elements in their team and hope to win. FYI, lots of energy heros to deal with mandrake apart from prophet. Lots of issue is the player, who thinks they can use a mech take out a chem hero. Go figure.
I agree he needs to be nerfed but I strongly disagree with the OP about how much. If he did half as much damage as he does now he’d still out-damage most other heroes consistently.
Across the board nerfs of 25% to damage, health, and armor would make him the glass cannon I think the devs had in mind and spectacularly missed achieving. He is the EZ-mode faceroll character and he ruins PvP for it.
@Arne_Van_Lamoen, I Do NOT think Dogface should be nerf. He has a limited magazine size, slow skill charge up. He does not out out damage any other hero. Put him against Clyde, Clyde will chew him up with his fast reload and Dps. Frankly p, any player that allows Dogface to charge up deserves to lose the match.
I am so sick of people crying nerf, when they fail to learn the game mechanics and element advantage and putting out a balanced team composition. Too many times I run up against a stronger team that is patch work but fall to my balanced team.
Oh we’re discussing Dogface agan!
Try targeting him using Odachi, he’ll take him out in literally 2 clips (approx. 7 seconds). Of course not everyone have Odachi but… I like to see the Dogface melt.
If we get an unneeded dogface nerf, we know who to blame. Haha
Seriously, can we please stop it with the nerf pleas? We had huge nerfs in the past few updates. 80% of them were not needed and made hero mixes in competitive pvp less viable. (Make Gammond great again! And remember the surprise matador nerf? Like is he dangerous?)
